Author Topic: language problems.  (Read 365 times)

Jennifer H.

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language problems.
« on: June 16, 2017, 09:11:23 AM »
Problem: I think one of the main problems, not just in Europe, is efficient communication. As Esperanto was not adopted and English has become the international language, the inconsistencies of pronunciation and spelling in English have made it hard for foreigners. Besides, English speakers have dialectical variations that create difficulties.
Proposal: I propose that all languages, starting with English, should use the International Phonetic Alphabet. This is taught in some countries and used in good dictionaries to help pronunciation. It is standard and common to all languages. It would not be difficult to learn. Imagine being able to read Russian or Chinese without learning their pronunciation system!
Solution: Computers would need a series of new letters as the ones we use are insufficient. These can be found on the internet but are not on the usual keyboard. (ai houp it wud bi: posibl tu du it)
Implications: At first, texts could be done both ways, and if the solution is acceptable, it might gradually take over. Many young people already use a more phonetic spelling in SMS and accept novelties like LOL and ASAP with no problem, but they should be standardized.
Strategies: The alphabet already exists and is used, so it is a question of promotion. If the EU recommends its use in schools and starts to publish in the IPA, it would catch on and simplify effective communication.

Richard Gartside

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Re: language problems.
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 08:34:08 PM »
You raise a valid point, communication is a key aspect to how we relate to others.  Whilst I am able to communicate reasonably well in 2 'european' languages, this is far from the norm - especially in the UK.  We have developed, possibly because of our empire past, an arrogance that assumes everyone will understand english - you just have to speak it slowly and loudly enough.
(sorry, my personal rant there)

But lets take the central assumption that English is to be defined as a core common language of European communication.  You rightly point out that even within England, let alone the rest of the UK, there are distinct regional dialects and accents.  Traditionally this was resolved by the adoption of "BBC English" which was a fairly neutral, southern accent, however there has been an increase in the media for more tolerance of regional accents.

Learning to read phonetically is actually something I still have to engage brain with, I do not do it 'day to day'.
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As you suggest, probably the best way to approach this is to start them young, and teach it from nursery/primary school age (4/5 years old) so that they understand how to read phonetically, and to appreciate how "standard" english should sound.  This does carry the warning that standard english should not be taken to be superior to regional accents.  The same is true in France, where despite the best efforts of the Academie Francaise to maintain the highest standards of French, regional and international variations creep in.

an interesting side-effect of teaching children to read and speak phonetically is that it may assist with learning foreign languages, as they can see the correct way to pronounce words - no more me speaking French like an englishman <sigh>, or german like a chinese person apparently

btw, this is an old one, but it illustrates the problems with spelling and pronunciation - based on pronunciation of words, FISH could be spelled GHOTI
GH as in the F of ENOUGH
O as in the I of WOMEN
TI as in the SH of FICTION

indeed in your example of 'correct' pronunctiation I read "houp" as the same way as 'hoop' but it could be pronounced 'hup or 'hop'' - the difference in pronouciation between COULD, TOUGH and COUGH[/size]

Jennifer H.

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Re: language problems.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 05:31:22 PM »
You obviously don't know phonetics as each sound is unique: enough is /invf/ )v should be upside down and pronounced as in up, could is /kud/ and cough is /kof/ - easy when you know how!

Richard Gartside

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Re: language problems.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 10:03:56 PM »
[size=12pt]That is what I mean, you first have to teach phonetics before you can even start to teach anything else. 

This means you are looking realistically a full generation away, ie the kids of 2 or 3 today are going to be your target audience, which means that there is going to be something like a 15 to 20 year lag before you start to see any benefit.

I think it is a commendable aim, but even the EU has a terrible track record of planning that far into the future.  There is perhaps something to be said for dictatorships, they do not have to worry about consequences of their actions because they have no dissent allowed LOL[/size]